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    Tilly Money Podcast

    Tilly Money Podcast with Camilla Love, eInvest

    Maureen and Claire of Tilly Money Podcast  interviews eInvest Managing Director, Camilla Love in Episode 12. The podcasts covers active ETFs, Camilla’s career, what she does day to day, diversity and the opportunities in financial services, portfolio diversification and risk. In this wide ranging discussion, you can get a feel of Camilla’s go-getting personality, her quick wit and her dedication to making financial services a more successful industry.

    Find out more

    • F3 – Future Females in Finance  – Educating young women about careers in finance, showcasing great role models and providing practical work experience to foster the next generation of talent into financial services.
    • eInvest – ETFs redefined.

    Camilla’s top Money and Business Podcasts

    1. Pivot – a blend of business and tech.
    2. Freakonomics – everyday economics, easily consumed.
    3. Planet Money – 20 mins, approachable money discussion about the everyday

    A big thanks to Maureen and Claire for hosting Camilla on the Tilly Money Podcast. If you have additional questions, feel free to contact us at [email protected]


    Disclaimer: Please note that these are the views of the author, Camilla Love, Managing Director, eInvest and is not financial advice.

    To find out how to invest in our active ETFs, visit here. The product disclosure statement and more can be found at

    If you’d like to keep learning further, please feel free to follow any of our socials listed below.


    Please note: What is said in this podcast is informational and general in nature and does not take into account your personal cicrumstances and cannot be construed as financial advice. Please see financial advice to understand the risks and benefits involved with investing.

    To find out how to invest in our active ETFs, visit here. The product disclosure statement and more can be found at

    Money, you can’t really get through life without it. Some people use it to define success. Some people use it as the key to reach their goals. And some people use it to attain freedom. Whatever your motivation, you need to know how to earn it, how to use it and how to grow it.

    For years, women have been telling their beauty stories, their success stories, their health stories. Now we want to talk to women about their money stories. Welcome to Tell Me Money. With over 17 years experience in finance, Camilla Love is the founder and managing director of Invest, an active ETF funds management firm. Camilla has always been a strong advocate for women founding the F3 program to educate and foster young women’s interest in the finance world with a Master of Applied Finance and Investments, an MBA and many other qualifications.

    Don’t be surprised to see Camilla at the helm of an ASX 200 company any day now.

    I’ve been a Perennial for, 16 years and I’d seen one girl come through for work experience in there and I really wanted to change that.

    The industry was asking more questions about where the females in your investment team, and rightly so.

    Today’s episode is brought to you by our principal partner. Mortgage Choice 2020 has been a challenging year, so mortgage choice and its national network of mortgage brokers are on a mission to help Australians restart their 2020. Whether you’re looking to buy your first home or investment property or want to refinance an existing home loan to get a better deal, let a mortgage choice broker answer all your questions, show you what’s available, and do the legwork to help you restart 2020. Visit Mortgage Choice Dotcom today or call one three seven seven six two to speak to your local broker.

    Camilla, welcome to Tilly money. Thank you. Welcome. So let’s kick off from the word go and eventually we’re going to get into this more complicated world of money and ETFs and we’ll dabble in that. But we do want to know a lot more about you and your interest in money and your background, Camilla. So tell us in a nutshell, where did you learn about money growing up?

    Well, I guess it’s first started when my parents got a bank account, set up, a bank account for me, and I reckon I was about eight at that point in time and I sort of fostered from there. So, as a teenager, I coached in umpired netball for a bit of cash on the weekend while I was playing down at the courts on a Saturday afternoon. So I got some income from there. And then I, went on and worked at Big W and Portmans at university. But I think really, other than the bank account, it was actually watching my parents have their own businesses and actually then going in and stuffing envelopes because my mum was running a publication at the time and sending them off to subscribers or my dad had a fibreglass company out at Guilford and I would go to the factory floor in the school holidays and for an extra little bit of cash be doing odd jobs in here and there. So it started from there.

    And then I guess also as a kid, I always remember my parents being involved in the St. Luke’s Hospital Foundation. And I would sit there and, as a like little tacker, running around selling raffle tickets to people to raise money. And I guess there it actually taught me a little bit about what money can do when you give it to other people to foster a better relationship with the community. And so there’s sort of two aspects of how I started in the in the money sphere and what it means to me from the beginning.

    Was there any significance in the age of eight where you getting, , money for gifts or whatever? So when you opened a bank account at eight years of age, was it something that prompted that?

    Yeah, my grandparents always give me gifts for the for my birthday and Christmas and things like that.

    But I was never, , at that age, you never really good with money. And… the local milk bar was always a thing for me. The temptation was mixed lolly bag. So I’d definitely stop on the way there on the way home from school. So it is it is a learned skill to have over time.


    So you’ve had this ingrained awareness of money and then you went into the world of finance. You chose that straight up as your career or once you did.

    And it sort of came about because essentially from my godfather. Right. And we deemed him the “international man of mystery”. And the reason for that was because, as a kid growing up, he spent most of his time living in New York and Tokyo in the 80s and 90s, and which would have been a fabulous place to have been working at the time. And as a kid, he would come home for the Christmas holidays to much fanfare amongst my parents and their friends. And, he’d be talking about the deals he had done and the places he had travelled to and things like that. And I was just like in awe. And I was like, whatever he does, I’m just going to do it. And it wasn’t until later actually worked out he worked at Citigroup and was in finance. And that’s really the end of the story.

    Oh, wow. So he gave you your godfather, gave you your big break?

    Well, from an idea generation point of view. But, , my big break could come from any spot, right. So maybe, thinking about that, maybe it was the fact that I actually said no to my first graduate recruitment role, which people thought I was absolutely bonkers to do. So what was that?

    Well, I actually was offered a business banking role in one of the major banks, and that was a big thing to be offered as a graduate. And but I really wanted to be in funds management and I really wanted to be in marketing and actually said no to that. And as I said, people thought I was crazy to turn it down because and it was all about being patient and waiting for the right role.

    And I mean, it could have been when I got a scholarship to do my MBA at AGSM. That’s no mean feat that. Definitely.

    But, someone obviously there saw some great things in me and it transformed the way that I saw, , the business world and the way that I thought, even looking at, the place that, perennial and investing, it is a great boss. I’ve been working with Anthony Patterson for nearly 20 years and him backing me and understanding my skill set and and, allowing me to start to eInvest, but, maybe cross fingers that is my big break hasn’t even come yet.

    Maybe it’s a bit of luck. Maybe it’s a bit of tenacity. Maybe it’s a bit of grit. But, who knows?

    Well, it sounds like that’s exactly right. And we’ll be following it, too. Sounds like the future is bright. And you might be then one day dubbed as an international woman of mystery. But you don’t look I mean, you look very accomplished, but you don’t look all that mysterious. Camilla is a very accomplished though. You’re at the investor now. Tell us about the role at eInvest.

    So I’m the Managing Director of eInvest and eInvest is, as you mentioned, in the introduction, an ETF, an active ETF startup. So we’re the newest brand in the ETF space and we only focus on ETFs where we believe active management makes sense.

    Okay, so I’m going to have to interrupt you there, because at the very beginning I did. So we’re going to explain a few things. And to a lot of people, I mean, Camilla from eight, you’ve been money conscious, and you’ve been obviously very successful in your career. But the world of money is a bit like your godfather. Mysterious. Very much so. And tell us a little bit before we jump into your role at the investor, tell us a little bit in simple terms what an ETF is.

    So ETF stands for exchange traded funds, and that’s what it is in a nutshell. So a portfolio of stocks that you can buy on the stock exchange through just one trade, and you can do that through an actively managed fund where you tap into the expertise of investment professionals or ETFs also.


    And the majority of ETFs are in a passively managed fund where they are managed against an index or a benchmark. So, for example, the ASX 200.

    So Camilla, why might somebody want to invest in an ETF over, say just going and choosing a Telstra or a Commonwealth Bank or a couple of other stocks?

    A lot of it has to do with time and resources of themselves and knowledge base. So tapping in an ETF can be easier.

    You can tap into the expertise as a set of investment professionals or tracking an index. But you can also it’s transparent. You can trade it with one. you just go on to your online broker like the likes of CommSec or Bell Direct, for example, or contact your financial planner. But they’re really accessible.

    And through one trade, you can access a lot more diversification. And also areas say, for example, a lot of people we know have a home country bias when they invest. So a lot of Australians are heavily invested in the Australian Stock Exchange. So I can give you access to offshore markets, global markets, commodities such as gold and things like that.

    So it can broaden your experience with investing in a reasonably simple way, and especially with offshore, where it’s far more difficult to go into detail or analyse shares. Does that minimise the risk? Because you’re looking at someone who would know far more than you as the manager of the ETF, far more than you could possibly know as an individual trader.

    Yeah, particularly those where you are tapping in the expertise of financial professionals. I mean, they live this stuff day in and day out and, you don’t. I don’t. So it’s really hard to understand the risks that are coming in to your individual stock choice and the impacts of other things, such as interest rates and sector and government policies and things like that. So, yeah, it’s a really good way to start your investing journey.

    A lot of people use them, too. So lots. Yeah, lots of people with numbers increasing.

    Okay, so back to your role at the investor. Tell us more about that.

    So as I mentioned, the managing director, so what we do at eInvest, we’ve discussed we’re an active ETF provider, and in my role I manage a whole bunch of really fabulous and really intelligent people.

    I split my time fifty per cent sales and 50 per cent everything else, and that everything else comprises over things like compliance and risk and and legal and dealing with the exchanges, for example, product development and pipeline management. But but really what gets me out of bed every morning is talking to people and meeting new people and talking about finance and the ability for me to marry those two loves together is fabulous.

    And, I really enjoy what I do.

    You’ve taken that across into your personal life as well, we mentioned. Earlier, you developed a program called F3, so you really had an interest in fostering women and encouraging them into careers in finance. How did that kind of come about?

    Well, it came about in short, because I cracked it.

    There was a number of things that happened over a period of six months. And I just like I was shaking my head going, what is going on here? Why can’t we make a meaningful change? And so, there’s some really important things. And there’s lots of talented females out there who just want a little bit of work experience in the financial services industry. And, in the industry, there’s a lot of there’s a lot of fluff. There’s a lot of lip service. Everyone’s talking the talk, but no one is actually walking the walk. And so I really wanted to specialise in the pipeline management and pipeline integration into the financial services industry. So I wanted something that was entirely scalable, was accessible because it’s all online. And to really just nudge girls to break down those stereotypes of what outsiders think finance really is and to bring that fabulous talent into the industry, front line analytical roles. And that’s what it’s all about.

    So even from a work experience point of view, females were finding it hard to kind of crack through that glass ceiling where there was a more of a confidence issue was a bit of both.

    But, when you come into work experience in financial services, generally, it’s,my next door neighbor’s best friend’s dogs, dad … blah, blah, blah. Right. Can you take my son, for work experience. And, I think at the time I started after, I’d been a Perennial for 16 years and I’d seen one girl come through for work experience in there. And I really wanted to change that. The industry was asking more questions about where are the females in your investment team? And rightly so. And I really wanted to make a change. So that’s what it was all about. But, girls have an issue about confidence.

    And I think that that’s F3 comes in. I sort of turned work experience on its head and it needed to have a different way of going about things.

    So the so the turning that that work experience platform upside down and going, OK, obviously it’s not working. And the reason why it’s not working is because it’s one individual going into a group generally that will have a diversity issue amongst it. How do you make that female feel comfortable in it? And so we move to online, we move to we move to group work experience.

    And I think for the group work experience, I mean, the way that I sort of liken it is, , where do you find the girls at the gym? They’re in the group classes and not on the weights floor. But the more likely they go to the group classes, the more likely they turn up onto the weights floor over time. It’s a bit of that.

    So that’s how I think about it. Yeah, dynamic kind of changes. So was that kind of one of the greatest learnings is just kind of adapting the working dynamics to fit the females or what was some of the takings from the program?

    It’s probably not about fitting, but yeah, it’s just giving a having a different way of doing it.

    Instinctively, we are different and we learn and absorb things differently. And we, just having a different format, I think it is important. But I guess I tell you what, there’s a couple of really interesting ideas.

    But my biggest learning, I think is, the amount of talent out there, like, oh, my gosh, like the next generation is so smart and so, yes, they’re coming to get us, which I think is great.

    And I think that the financial services industry is going to be so much better to have them inside it. And it’s just nudging the talent in by showing them, the misconceptions that they have might not necessarily be there and giving them, just by giving them a bit of work experience.

    Yeah. Can you myth just a little bit for us? What are those like?

    Well, the biggest one is, financial services is like the wolf of Wall Street. That’s flatly wrong. And, I encourage everyone to come in to even just have a look and to try it out, because I think that that the cultural piece, really does fit females and, having that misperception can really sort of tap you out early. So I think that that’s a really big one. I think that there’s a couple others, such as, that financial services is just investment banking and accounting. Well, it is an enormous industry for the Australian economy. I think it’s the top four. And, there’s so much other stuff in between.

    There’s financial planning and a securitization and there’s debt and there’s venture capital. And there’s so much stuff in between sort of people need to think about big businesses and small businesses when thinking about, , coming into financial services. So, yes, there’s lots of different myths to bust. My final myth bust is actually that you have to be a whiz at maths to be in financial services. Financial services is a broad church. The creative types, people with street smarts, people with people personalities, and many people can all find careers in financial services. And I think that that’s great.. So as part of our work experience programs, there is a there is always a componentry of modelling inside all the projects, but the girls realise that that’s not the be all and end all, once they put their solution together.

    So, I mean, that is a big myth to bust.

    Interesting. The world had and America in particular, but all in the world, there was a great loss recently with the passing of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And there was something that I read one of her great quotes that said that equality between men and women will be recognized when everything becomes a 50/50 split, including so not just the work, but including the family and what’s done at home.

    Now, it’s interesting because I believe in your situation that your husband has been the home maker, the supporter of the family in terms of rearing the children. Is that the case?

    Yes. So he took a lot of time off when the kids were little in our family. It is 50/50. And, , I thank Ruth for the stuff that she’s done because, oh, my gosh, the world, she’s a way, better place, having had her in it. But yeah. So and that was , Ed took off with Henry seven years ago. Eight years ago.

    He took three months off part time when Henry was six months old and had a really good time. And then, well business doesn’t work as perfectly planned. So when eInvest started its first ETF and 10 days later, we had our second child, Sabrina, he put his hand up and said, I’ll happily take it.

    So he he he’s he’s fabulous. And I think, I thank him a lot for the effort that we put in as a family to work together.

    But obviously, that’s been a massive support to give you even the headspace as well to build what you’re wanting to build for your family to. Absolutely. And there’s a thing that that I drive on about a lot.

    And Camilla and it’s a lot of men are not they don’t discriminate against women. And yet a woman feels that they do because there’s a thing called unconscious bias. Have you found then by unconscious bias, they could be fantastic?  They could employ women, but they’ve got locked into their brains, just years of conditioning. That a woman’s place is this saw a woman’s role is that all women are these jobs. If you come across in your experience, this thing called unconscious bias.

    Yeah, a lot. A lot. And I guess the place I always start is actually with me. And so when I see myself having positive or negative unconscious bias, I actually have to check myself. And I think that if everyone started with themselves, I think that, we could actually make a big, big change. Recently, for example, I was sitting at a board meeting and the chair had actually attributed an idea of mine to a male member and actually called it out. And, they were like, oh, whoa, whoa, what’s going on here? And, I think you have to have a really good relationship with your board to be able to do that and to feel comfortable in yourself. But now I just, I don’t watch it go by these days. I call it out. I’m a little bit more vocal. And, I think that comes with maturity.

    And your time in the in life was often the subject of many movies where a woman would say something and there’d be no response, and then a bloke could pick up the same thing. What a great idea. But in those circumstances, women didn’t call it out. But what you’re saying, it’s very important to bring awareness to that kind of thing.

    Mm hmm. And I think I and I think, as I said, starting with you, calling your own bias out when you’re positive or negatively discriminating.

    Yes, important.

    So what is one key thing about money that you think women really need to learn?

    Oh, so there’s a couple of things that I would like to say.

    And, “a man is not a financial plan” is the first one. And I think that that’s critical. So always make sure that you’re self-reliant. The other a very good and highly intelligent friend of mine said “it’s shares, not shoes”. And and whilst, I love my shoes, don’t get me wrong, I think that that’s something to think about. But actually, practically, it’s about budgeting.

    And I think that that is a really critical skill that you don’t get taught actually have to go and sit down and think about it and manage that process. Budgeting is critical for stuff like,credit card credit management and loan management and as your, investment portfolio, as your life gets more complex, that coming back to that budget every year is really, really important to do.

    I think it was George Washington, the first president of the United States, who basically said, which is a truism for a lot of people, particularly when they’re young, is that budget budgeting is all about living within your means. Exactly. And I guess whether that’s an individual or a company, it’s a pretty good maxim to live by that first president. So things don’t change.

    Exactly. And I guess the other thing that I would say is that women really, really need to engage in their super and they need to do it really early. Like I mean, and I’m sure you guys have touched with other other podcasts. But, women are more likely retire in poverty.

    They are retiring on 50 per cent of the the balances of their male counterpart. And to do that you need to engage with it to make a change. And, things like don’t take the default option. Actually, just think about, what are your risks, what are your goals and actively choosing not to have the default option and maybe choosing something else because women, we live longer. So therefore, maybe the onus is on us to take a little bit more risk because of that fact. Obviously, take advice as part of that. But, engaging with your super is really, really important.

    Well, it’s certainly something that we’re stressing over already. We’ve touched on superannuation because we’ve only been around a relatively short time. But you’re so right, Camilla. It’s such an important thing. Sometimes people feel that because it’s in the never, never, that they don’t worry about. But the never, never comes around pretty quickly.

    Very much so. And you end up being 55 and going, oh, my God, I don’t have enough.

    Oh, exactly. And then you’ve got to really sacrifice a lot to catch up, whereas.

    Yeah, and it’s and it’s really hard talking to young women about that because retirement feels so, so far away. But you don’t want to get to, 55 and then go, oh, I’m going to retire in 10 years or 15 years time and you’ve got to claw it all back. It’s it’s really, really difficult.

    So, part of what I do with F3 is I talk up to young women about engaging with their super so important because a word that keeps cropping up on these podcasts is that when you do it younger you have the magic of compound interest where your money is just rolling over and interest is only money on interest even. But as you get closer to retirement, years are just, far less. Yeah. And then you’ve got age limits for when you have to you can you have to stop contributing to super. So it’s very hard to catch up.

    Yeah. I think it’s Albert Einstein. He said that it’s the wonder of the world is the interest. I think that that is absolutely true.

    It’s so true. So let’s get down to your portfolio. Let’s talk about the word diversity and let’s take two forms of it. Tell us first about diversity of your portfolio or why it’s important for anyone’s portfolio to be diversified.

    Well, you don’t want to put all your eggs in one basket. And I think that that’s absolutely important. I mean, that’s what I want of investing, is that you really need to think about diversity not only in companies and sector and in management, but in asset classes and the styles of investments that you’re putting together, whether it’s, as a growth style versus a value style or if it’s fixed income and cash and equities, it really needs to sort of you need to have the growth on the upside, but also limit the downside. So you don’t want to blow things up on one on one choice. And that’s what diversification is important.

    So even for yourself, someone who’s a specialist in the area of growth of ETFs, which embraces embraces the share market, would you still suggest to yourself or to someone you were giving some on using inverted commas [“ ”] advice to? Because you’ve got to be careful there that they have other things in their portfolio, but a property or whatever?

    Yeah, absolutely. The balanced portfolio, the 60-40 split than most people talk about in between growth and assets and defensive assets, I think is really, really important to think about. And, in property. For example, in my portfolio, I , I have a high growth portfolio because I have a high risk tolerance. That is that’s something that I know about myself. So recently I’ve been sort of thinking about and doing some investing in the private markets in the startup scene, which, I’ve only allocating a very small portion of my portfolio to that. And it’s a really, really long term play.

    But it is again, it is outside the listed equities.

    It has the ability to lose a lot of money and it also has the ability to be really positive on the upside. So that’s sort of what I’ve been doing in my portfolio recently.

    And so in that small portion, you said you’re prepared to take on a bit more risk than you normally would because you think that the returns could be fantastic at some point down the track.

    That’s right. So, I know that 60 percent of the my investments in this space are going to go to zero. There might be one investment in this space that might go to 10 times. There might be one after per year, one by one Afterpay or one Canva or something like that.

    So, but you have to have a diverse portfolio to be able to have that, that probability on the upside to come through, if that the downside is, is going to be meaningful.

    That’s right. And the other word that you use, Camilla, is you’ve explained to us a little bit about the growth portfolio, where you’re wanting a bigger return. You’re prepared to take a bit more risk. But then you mentioned the word defensive. Can you take us through what that means? Because a lot of people, these terms are really out of their orbit.

    Yeah, sure. So the defensive portfolio is a portfolio that has lower volatility. So it doesn’t have the really big upsides and really big downside. And asset classes that fit in that space are cash and fixed income. And they actually can within those asset classes can actually also have different spectrums. So it is well worth having a understanding of what risks are involved. So, for example, in fixed income, you can take on leverage loans, but they’re much more like equity risk than they are actually more than the defensive piece. So you need to think about what the defensive bucket looks like and again, have a diverse option within that defensive bucket.

    And could it be true to say that if you’re younger with less responsibilities compared to someone who’s older, who’s really only going to live off their investments, you could probably be more growth oriented when you’re younger and then perhaps when you’re older because you’re wanting security and you’re wanting certain returns, you might be more defensive.

    Yeah, absolutely. So the closer you get to retirement, the more likely you have a bigger defensive allocation in your portfolio. I talk to girls out there for F3 and investing in superannuation, and I talk about that don’t choose the default option, maybe choose a higher growth option because we are living longer. That’s what we sort of talk about. So I absolutely agree with that and so forth. And, even in choice, in that space, the younger generation might actually choose to have a more of an ESG allocation. Inability tilt in their portfolio, because that’s, , what we’re seeing out of that younger generation.

    So say, for example, in in one of our ETFs, IMPQ the code is , the eInvest Future Impact Small Caps Fund the it’s an ESG small cap Australian equities fund. But the registry is more likely to be female and more likely to be young. Interesting. So, I love that aspect for that product because it’s really bringing that next generation through and,, getting them and allowing them to have the choice on making a better future.

    Yeah. And would you just say, Camilla, that it’s a part of the reason why it’s important for anyone, particularly young people who a lot of whom are very ethically and sustainably oriented to be aware of their super because what’s what could happen if they’re not aware? Could companies could their super be invested in companies that are running against what their philosophical beliefs might be?

    Absolutely. And and you see that every day. I mean, you can just see the paper with Rio, for example. I mean, I , I shake my head at that decision and what occurred there. But, if you took a more sustainable approach to that, you wouldn’t be invested in companies such as that. You want to be in much more renewable allocations. You want to be in, maybe education and health care and renewable energy and things like that. And you need to make that decision yourself, because if you choose a default in your superannuation, that decision’s already going to be made for you.

    Exactly. Yeah. So just circling back on the idea of diversity, and you touched on it earlier about how you were trying to address the issue of diversity within the finance industry. Do you find it’s getting easier within your own teams to maintain a sense of diversity?

    Yeah, absolutely. And and I think that’s because it’s something close to myself. So say, for example, when we started to invest, it was just Jodi and I. And so the next person who is going to be employed was going to be someone of a different sex. I think that that but really, in reality, it becomes about choosing the right person for the role and the most, the one that fits the culture best. And and it doesn’t matter which way it works because diversity comes in thinking and background and all that sort of stuff as well. So we , I think about that a lot about when I put my teams together and that that even is in in my volunteer capacity. I think about that as, putting my committees together and things like that. So it’s important.

    Do you think it contributes to kind of the success of the overall team to have just diverse opinions, backgrounds a lot?

    Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. The creativity in the team is higher. I think you get a higher performing team out of it. And as I said, diversity comes in way more than just gender. And I think people need to think about that a lot more. It’s not about , we talked about unconscious bias before. It’s not about hiring yourself. It’s about hiring the best person for the role.

    Definitely swinging back a little bit as well, is that I’ve met you in a number of occasions, Camilla. And today, just listening to you, you’re obviously across what you do. You’re impeccably groomed, your successful. You’ve got a great family with two kids and in your husband there who obviously is a great support. A lot of women feel that, oh, there’s just so much to do, in this family, in this work. And there’s me and you manage it. Give us some insight, realistic clues, because Tilly Money is all about realism. We don’t want to set up people like yourself selves as role models that aren’t real. How do you manage at all and still look good?

    Yeah, time getting up early in the morning. Straight ahead, really good support and very poor. Exactly.

    No, but I think that it starts in the family unit.

    And so when I knew that my career was very important to me early on to my husband, we’re actually just we’ve just having our fifteen year wedding anniversary this week. We’ve been together for twenty two years.

    So when he met me, we were both at university and I had that conversation with him really early. Right. I set expectations early. It was always going to be 50/50. And I held him to that along through the process, no matter how hard it was for both of us, because there were points in time where it is hard for both of us to make the. Because of that, but sort of moving forward, it’s about setting up the family to win and setting up everybody to win in it. So, having that village around you for support, having great people at work that you can rely on 100 percent, having the cleaner and, ready made meals in the freezer and a Rolodex of babysitters [does anyone even use Rolodexes?], but Rolodex of babysitters at a time, after school activities like just everybody, no matter what.

    So my kids when they are winning, my husband’s winning. the dogs are still getting out for a walk. that sort of stuff is really important. So and I’m not here to say that that works for everyone. Right. So every family unit is is different and each to their own. And I fully respect that. But if you want to if you want to have a career and be successful at it, you do need to set those expectations early and you do need to set everybody up for success.

    Because what I hear from what you’re saying is that’s an old line that says it takes a village to raise a child. But I think in terms of a successful woman, it almost what you’re saying is it takes a village to help a woman be successful as well and then get support. And why shouldn’t women have their whole network as well and give them credit to those people who do help them succeed? Absolutely.

    And just on a side to that, you do seem to also have this personal growth strategy with all this further education and upskilling than just doing my research into it just seems like a constant kind of stepping stone to the next path.

    How do you plan ahead for that or what is it just what strikes you or so it’s innate.

    It is really this mindset of lifelong learning, It’s really innate to me.

    So I love it, whether it be in a formal learning setting, whether it be traveling and learning about new cultures, whether it be learning about new people and meeting new people, building the network and all that sort stuff.

    But it is it is innate. So I am I keep myself sharp because of it. And I think that that’s really important.

    So, we’ve got an intern at work and, he’s just embarked on his his Master’s. And I’m like, dude, don’t stop, like, just consistently do it.

    So at the moment, I mentioned about my investing journey. I’m actually delving a lot in that tech space just because I know that in 20 years time, I know what we’ve done in the last 20 years. I think in 20 years time will be very much changed. So, understanding about machine learning, understanding about A.I., understanding what does that mean to financial services? That’s sort of where I’m delving at the moment in this space to sort of self educate myself.

    We’ve got one last question, Camilla, and we put this to every woman, and it might take you a second to think about it. But if you had you’ve given us so much advice this morning and you’ve exposed to how you’ve been successful as well. And anyone listening to this podcast is going to be grateful for that. If you could give a bit of advice to Carmilla Love, age 21, 22, 23. And we always say if she’d listen, because we know that sometimes you don’t always listen to the best of advice, even if you give it to yourself. But if she listen, what’s something that you would look back and say now, Camilla, this is what you must do or you mustn’t do.

    I guess there’s probably a couple of things, but I definitely say back myself and I guess everybody on your podcast has probably said that.

    But being more assertive and I think that women sort of shy away from being assertive because you might not fit the mould where I think if I had been a little bit more assertive, not only with myself, but with the surroundings around me, who knows what would have come from that? Asking the next question… whether that be can I have a pay rise or whether it be can I have a coffee so that I can understand what you do or whether it be, tell me, I’d like to meet someone with a job role that looks like X. Do you know someone who does? And I think that next question, whatever that next question is, having that curiosity, I think is really important. And that would be what I think I would told myself, 20 years ago. They would have been fantastic.

    Just to close up the episode this week, so I’m just going to ask you a few really quick things just to wrap up and just the first thing that comes in your head. OK.. so

    I won’t rest until…. I leave the world in a better place.

    Financial freedom is … having holidays when and where you want.

    Investing is … not as hard as you think

    The future holds… Dot, dot, dot.

    What’s most important is…. love, respect, curiosity and truth.

    The world needs…. more people who push the boundaries, challenge the status quo, and will stake their reputation on it. Because I think the future is going to be full of those people that are doing that today.

    Well, you are the first person that has put those lightning round questions to bring in answer.

    They were best. Thanks for coming. No problem. Thanks, guys.

    Your host this week were Maureen Jordan and Claire Osman, thanks to Xen for our intro music. See you next time.