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    Redefining ETFs | The Female Investors Project Podcast

    Jodi Pettersen, Investor Relations for eInvest joined Genevieve Hourigan of the Female Investors Project Podcast (instagram:@thefemaleinvestors).

    Genevieve and Jodi cover:

    • What is a fund manager?
    • The way big institutions invests compared with retail investors
    • Passive vs Active ETFs
    • Small caps and why active management makes sense
    • ESG – Environment, Social and Governance factors in investing, greenwashing and doing your own research
    • What it is like to work in funds management, Jodi’s personal investments

    Jodi and Genevieve discussed many ideas. If you want to dive deeper, we have linked some further reading below.

    • ASX:IMPQ is the portfolio the Genevieve and Jodi both invest in. Check it out here
    • What is an ETF and an Active ETF – the go to guide 
    • Want to go deeper into ESG and Small caps – listen to this podcast with the ASX
    • Read more about small caps here
    • The fundamentals of ESG investing – a good read

    Thank you again for having Jodi on the podcast. Happy investing!

    Disclaimer: Please note that these are the views of the author, Jodi Pettersen, Investor Relations, eInvest,  and is not financial advice.

    To find out how to invest in our active ETFs, visit here. The product disclosure statement and more can be found at

    If you’d like to keep learning further, please feel free to follow any of our socials listed below.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][/vc_row]



    TFIProject: Hello and welcome to the Female Investors Project. The podcast that breaks down the complexities of investing and the market to help you feel more confident when investing. I am very excited to be joined here today by Journey from Invest. Hi, Jerry. How are you doing?


    Jodi Pettersen: Hi, I’m great. Thanks for having me.


    TFIProject: I’m really excited to have you here. So I think that we’ve got quite a few of interesting topics to get through today. But first of all, would you like to introduce yourself to my listeners or our listeners? Tell me a bit about yourself, your experience in finance.


    Jodi Pettersen: Sure. No problem. So, of course, my name is Jodi Pettersen and I work for Invest, which is a Sydney based funds management business. We focus on creating active ETFs for all of our Australian investors. And I’ve been with investors for several years now at about three or four. And my main role is a very broad definition, a term called investor relations, which essentially means everything and nothing in the sense that it’s it’s it’s a very broad role. But I’m mostly responsible with communicating without direct investors so that individuals like you and me and managing our website and all our communications advertising and of course, the social media channel, which that’s how you and I connected.


    TFIProject: Yes, that is that’s actually how I found out about invest. And disclaimer, I have started investing in I am pacu. I love it. So. Yeah. And how did you get interested in this space? Well, yeah,


    Jodi Pettersen: I ground I studied finance university. But before that, I was actually had a I was really interested in theater and clothes and costume production. So therefore, that’s very different liveried. But so basically, I finished school and I went to study costume production. I did that for a couple of years, worked out that as much as I love sewing and creating things, when you make it your job, it’s not fun anymore. So I quickly learned I think I’m better keeping that as like a hobby and ended up going to university to study business and did a finance major. And what was really interesting is I noticed that there was just like not a lot of women taking the finance major. I was one of the ones I wasn’t one of the only ones, but it was definitely a gender imbalance there. But you know, what’s really cool is that finance is actually like a really major sector of the Australian economy. And so, you know, there’s just so much opportunity out there. So I, I was a graduate of the GFC, which is challenging. And I’m sure some of the graduates of Covid, like, you know, twenty, twenty graduates, it’s going to be rough. But so I my first role was with do Deloitte. And I was working in the insolvency and restructuring team doing like turnaround and formal liquidations, administrations, that kind of stuff. And that’s actually it’s it was a booming industry, of course, because the economy was in stress.


    Jodi Pettersen: So I learnt a lot there. But quickly, as the economy improved, I was like, I didn’t see this going. They were saying having the same kind of momentum as it had when I started. So I managed to do a pivot into funds management. And that was really inspired by this awesome article we report that Deloitte had written itself. I got an internal internal Deloitte Communications, which, like when I told the partners about this, they were horrified because basically this is their own report convinced me to leave Deloitte. And I love that. I know. I know. Right. And so the report was just about the exponential growth of the superannuation industry was expected to have and was already demonstrating and then expected to continue. And so I just looked at those numbers. I was like, that is a rocket ship that is taking off and I want to be part of it. And, you know, there’s not that you know, Australia is like the third or fourth largest pension fund industry in the world. There’s not that many industries that we are leaders in. But pensions and investing is actually one of them. And I don’t think many people really recognise that. And I think that’s just a broader kind of. Explain a broader issue of of people not really recognizing or engaging with a super they don’t realize how big that you know. Yeah, I think


    TFIProject: It’s crazy, especially like if where almost one of the leaders in the pension funds. But yet our economy is still so small, it just goes to show how much diversification you need to be looking at outside of Australia and all that kind of thing. That’s so interesting.


    Jodi Pettersen: I bet. Well, this is quickly explained because it will roll into my role ever. So once I got actually started in funds management, in the institutional space, I was dealing marketing directly to the large superannuation funds and sovereign wealth funds and the really big end of town way, like, you know, the minute like the minimum investments, like hundreds, hundreds of millions of dollars. And you talking these huge ticket sizes, fascinating side of things. But it really made me on to get a really great insight into how the super funds invest everyone’s money.


    TFIProject: Yeah. Yeah. So do you mind clarifying what a fund’s manager does then? Like investing?


    Jodi Pettersen: Yeah. So a funds manager manages funds. And I know that sounds dumb, but basically I get it. Basically, they take other people’s money. So in in that in that case, it was the institutional investors. So, you know, some supPa would give you money and then you as the fund manager, would go out and invest that money in the market. Now, that’s essentially what funds managers do. So they built different fund managers will focus on different areas of the market. It’s usually each strategy is quite specialized and targets different pockets of the market, different techniques, different asset classes. But broadly, a fund manager is responsible for investing other people’s money. And the idea is usually to manage both risk and return and to meet an objective. And so that’s that’s what funds managers do. And there’s that big funds management industry in Australia, thanks to the superannuation industry in particular. I mean, there’s trillions of dollars in Australian superannuation funds that they have to work out. What do I do with this money? How do I invest my members money so that they can, you know, grow that those funds, it doesn’t just sit there in cash at all. Yeah. So because of that, the all these large super funds have got this continua. It’s it’s kind of a strange problem to have, but they’ve got this problem every month. What do I do with these hundreds of millions of dollars? Yeah. Yeah, I would put it


    TFIProject: It’s like managing your own budget, but on a much, much larger scale.


    Jodi Pettersen: Exactly. And so, you know, they’ve got this they’ve got similar issues in the sense that they’ve got money, they’ve got invested for really long term haymer time horizons. They’ve got to manage liquidity. They’ve got to manage diversification and risk. So what was really interesting is I got a lot of insight through those roles, too, and how the big guys invest. And then I got this amazing role to invest, which at Ian best, we don’t really focus on the institutional investors. We focus mostly on individuals like you and me and also financial advisors. So, you know, advisors who then recommend that you invest ETF, active ETFs to their clients. So and what was really interesting is like the more I understood about how individuals invest, it is quite different to the way institutions invest. And I think that, like what’s really exciting about invest is we can take the answer to what the institutions are doing and bring it out into a format, an active ETF format that makes it accessible for you and me to invest.


    TFIProject: Yeah. Fantastic. So we’ve spoken a bit about active ETFs. What’s the definition of an active ETF and how is it different from the ETFs from like beta shares and Vanguard that a lot of people are already quite familiar with?


    Jodi Pettersen: Yeah, sure. So before I’m going to quickly do a quick disclaimer, because my legal team love it when I do this without disclaimers. Of course, you know, you and I just talking on a podcast, and this is very general information, please do not take what we’re saying is financial advice. Go speak to your advisor. And if you need to read the PD, you know, if you if you want, it’s always good to read the PDF. And I, I actually encourage everyone to actually read the PDSA. Don’t just ignore it. Read it,


    TFIProject: Reads sorry is product


    Jodi Pettersen: Disclosure stuff. So every ETF will have a product disclosure statement. And it’s a really important document that outlines both the risks, the. The objectives of the ATF and all the kind of nitty gritty details, but as are available to invest, I’ll come to you. So now that I’ve got that out of way, way for my lawyers. And the difference between what is an activity and a passive ETF, so passive refers is is the opposite of active in the sense. And that’s what’s most common and the most common type of ETF. So that is passive ETFs are very popular by the likes of Vanguard and beta shares creates them. So does BlackRock. There’s lots of them out there. And what passive ETFs usually do is that they replicate. They invest. They replicate an index or some type of rules based portfolio. So there’s not an individual set, a team of investors going, that is portfolio. We’re going to put this and take this away. And there’s none of that. It’s a it’s basically a rule based portfolio where this most common ones is, for example, ones that just copy the ASX 200. So they just take the top two hundred companies that are listed on the Australian Stock Exchange and invest across them all equally on our market weighted. What motivated weighting. And so that’s just that’s just simply the rule. And that’s what most ETFs are out there like that.


    Jodi Pettersen: So when you hear people say, I’ve got an S&P 500 ETF, that’s what they’re referring to there, according to an ETF or exchange traded fund that replicates the S&P 500, which is just an index and. Activities are different. They usually at least and that’s what we focus specifically on it at and best what they do is instead of replicating an index or following some type of rules based approach. There’s a team of professional investors who sit behind and look at the portfolio and say and they manage that portfolio. They they analyze the investments that sit in there. They and they manage that portfolio. And to make some type of goal or objective, usually that goal is to prove, for example, to to beat an index. So here we’re not trying to replicate the index. We’re trying to beat it. And that’s the example of ASX IP. Q That is the goal of that is to outperform or beat the ASX Small Ordinaries Index. Yeah. And but then in other portfolios we’ve got it’s not so much about beating an index, but achieving and attempting to achieve an outcome or objective. So we’ve got another one called ASX. I got HGA. Is that portfolio code? And what that does is it’s a portfolio that targets seven percent per annum in income generated from investing in Australian shares. So it’s really about that income that it’s Opta. And the portfolio manager’s job day in and day out is to manage that portfolio exclusively and watch and make sure that it tries to achieve that seven percent objective.


    Jodi Pettersen: So it’s we our general view and our philosophy at invest is that there’s time and place for passive ETFs. But then there’s some areas of the market where active management really makes a lot of sense. So that’s the areas where we bring out products. We’re not trying to bring out another product that replicates the ASX 200. There’s heaps of that out there. And you can buy it, possibly the Beta Shez products in the Vanguard products that are less than 10 basis points. You can you can get that already passively. We’re not trying to do that. We’re trying to we know that there’s pockets of the market where active management or having that that team of investors, those there’s these professionals really making those decisions in areas where that makes a lot of sense and going back to the way that big institutions do it. Funnily enough, that’s where they invest in active management as well. So, you know, the big institutions will put that they have very strict rules around how much faith they can charge their clients. So they’re very cost conscious. So they will put some in passive and some inactive, recognizing that there’s some areas where it really pays off to be active. And that’s generally where we’re also creating product.


    TFIProject: Yes. So the area is kind of like the small caps and achieving that income where active makes sense, and if so, why is that so?


    Jodi Pettersen: So there’s all these different pockets, but it comes down to and each product has its own kind of, I guess, its basis. But let’s look at small caps at first, because it’s that’s an area where traditionally active management can really pay off. So what is a small cap? Let’s kind of define that first. And everyone’s got a different definition. There’s no formal definition, but we kind of look at it as the companies that are less than the ASX 100. So the we’re not looking at the big guys, the big miners and banks and all that. We’re looking at the much smaller companies. What is it about and what people don’t often recognize? This is over 2000 companies listed on the Australian Stock Exchange. So excluding the top 100, there’s still plenty of picking ground there and. Of that 2000, you know, we’ll have the numbers in the portfolio change over time, but maybe I think at the moment is about 40, 45 different companies in the portfolio. So 24 only selected 40, 45 ish. And what’s really interesting is when you’re looking at small caps, they usually companies that are smaller in that. So that usually earlier in that growth cycle life. Life-cycle, they’re not these big established banks that have been around since like 1910 or something. I don’t know how long all the Australian banks but know their new companies, their earliest growth stage growth that still kind of taking on market share. They might be investing into new technologies and innovations. And they’re the younger companies. And so what that means is that there’s. Greater opportunity for increased growth and also more opportunity for diversification, too. So the top 100 companies listed on the stock exchange were very heavily weighted to mining and financials. Right.


    Jodi Pettersen: But once you look further down the other end, you’ll see there’s a much broader kind of scope out there. So it actually really helps with diversification as well. And so you’re investing in companies that are set to grow? Well, hopefully it’s set to grow. Of course, this is never guaranteed an earlier stage. And so by being really selective of which of those companies in the small cap space kind of meet that criteria, you can pull together a portfolio that can. And in our case, does outperform the Small Ordinaries Index. Other features that help that are the small cap space is generally very under research. That is not the availability of you know, there’s not a lot of research out there on all those two thousand companies. So to understand which ones are good and which ones are dogs, you got to do a lot of research yourself. So that’s why investing, you know, having professional investors out there doing other portfolio managers, they do that research every day. They meet with the companies because remember, if a company is growing quickly. The financials that it provided in 30 June may not be a good indication of where they’re going to be next 30 June. So there’s a lot more groundwork involved, a lot more elbow grease involved. You can’t rely upon that big research houses providing a researcher with Bycel recommendation, you can’t rely on that because it doesn’t exist. You’ve got to go find them out yourself. And there’s two thousand out there. So that’s a pretty big challenge to find the ones that are good and ones and avoid the ones that are not. Yeah. And that’s why you got to have a team of investors, professional investors doing it, at least in our opinion.


    TFIProject: Yeah, of course. That sounds so interesting. And I’m assuming with smaller companies, there’s also a lower level of disclosures that they need to make, right?


    Jodi Pettersen: Absolutely. So that must be really


    TFIProject: Challenging, because at my work, I do a lot of research into annual reports and things. And as we go down the ASX and once you’re in the ASX 300 space, it’s like this is a lot harder to find the information that I need. So I can’t imagine going down to like the 1000, 2000 companies. It’s like. Yeah. Very different.


    Jodi Pettersen: Well, and that’s what’s really heading the profession like you and I like. We can’t find that information out. But yes, folia managers, they have access to the management of those companies. The boards, they can meet with them frequently, the boards and the managers frequently, and ask them those questions so they can. So what they will do is, you know, as I said earlier, the numbers of 30 June, this 30 June, might look very different next stage. But because they have the access to those met, the managers, the company management and the board, they can say they can ask, you know, what are your expectations for next financial year? You know, what are the risks to those expectations? You know, where are your areas of growth? Blah, blah, blah. You know, so many questions. And of course, all these questions vary on the industry. And they can get very technical, but they can build because they have access to the management, they have access to the board. They can build a clearer picture which allows them hopefully of things can also go wrong. And that’s another thing I’m just going to say, small caps, there’s more chance of things going wrong to like. Oh, look, it’s also the flip side is that there’s more risk in all of this, is that information is more opportunity to find the good ones. But there’s also a lot of bad ones out there. So range. And, you know, smaller companies might not be as resilient as larger companies.


    Jodi Pettersen: There’s a lot of risk involved as well. So but back to what I was saying, that access allows them to be build a clearer picture of what to expect into the future and allows them to hopefully make stronger convictions on. Yes, I see that company growing. And, yes, I want to allocate some money to it. And, yes, I’d hope my conviction in that company or that technology or their founders or their, you know, the innovations that they’ve got, it could be many reasons. But by doing that research and having that access access that you and I can’t get, it allows them to build a portfolio that hopefully outperforms the broader, broader index or the broader market over the long term. That, as I said, it’s it’s there’s no guarantees in this. And luckily with Impecunious had a great track record so far. It is consistently outperformed its benchmark, which is the Small Ordinaries Index and the team going back to like institutional the way institutions run. The team manages also money for institutions as well. So they’re very used to like large submenu funds all around the world, invest with the same team that are running the RPK portfolio. So it’s good to have that validation as well, because those those institutional investors, man, they do so much research on on on you as a fund manager when they choose to invest with you. It’s crazy to make the hoops that they make. I’m going to jump into.


    TFIProject: Yeah, I can imagine. That’s really cool. And I am pink. Q also has a focus on ASG, am I correct?


    Jodi Pettersen: Definitely strong focus. And again, like looking at the kind of characteristics of investing in small companies when I’m talking about access to broad access to management disclosures, understanding what these companies are doing. Again, this whole idea of there’s the positive, the negative, the the positive is when it comes to ASG or environmental, social and governance focused investing. Having that access to those companies and having that influence allows the fund manager for the portfolio manager teams to be able to actually help these companies improve their ESG credentials or help them disclose better or help them measure their carbon output, carbon emissions and greenhouse gas emissions. All these things like it’s whereas if like a fund manager goes to like I know big BHP or Rio is an interesting example because it’s last year it had some really big ESG, environmental, social and governance issues around when they blew up the gorge. Yeah, because it’s such a big company with such a global output. One fund manager probably has less influence in terms of actually trying to influence those outcomes, whereas in the small cap space, there’s actually more scope for that kind of interaction. And and an overall what we call that is we call that engagement. So where the portfolio managers speak to their board and the corporate managers of the company that they’re investing in and engage, discuss, uncover all these issues. But what’s really interesting about ESG investing is that, one, it’s growing massively. Massively and particularly young people, you know, they they don’t want to they don’t want their money invested in stuff that they can’t help them sleep at night. And I’m the same way. And they see they see the future problems that this world has and says, actually, if my investments can help solve that problem. Great. But ESG is also it’s about opportunities and it’s about risk.


    Jodi Pettersen: So companies that have poor ESG are probably going to be. More risky companies to invest in, they’re going to potentially have more controversies like the the you can gorge thing with Rio, for example. They’re going to have more government government kind of resistance. You know, if they’re working, they’d work in an industry that the government is trying to squash, but say, for example, tobacco. Yeah. And they might not have good, good social license to operate. Then perhaps their future customer base will be smaller than it is today. So that’s a risk to investing in a company. So what’s really great about investing with an ESG perspective is that you can use it to manage risk. Those examples I just get, but also you can use it as a kind of a driver for returns. If we know that there’s going to have to be billions, if not trillions of dollars invested globally around the world to into renewable energies and capital carbon emissions reduction technologies and all those types of things, if we’re going to have any chance of meeting the Paris agreement. Yes. And so you can either like that’s actually you can that you can see that as, oh, my God, that’s a huge problem. Or you can flip that and say, actually, that’s a huge opportunity. We know that this is the way the way we know the demand is there. We know that this is these are industries that have strong support from government, from lenders, from consumers and individuals and all different stakeholders. And actually that that makes that company more attractive now and potentially more attractive into the future. So what I really love about ASG is that to me, it makes a lot of sense.


    TFIProject: So, yeah, no, I think it’s so interesting as well, because I’ve listened to other podcasts where everyone’s talking about how maybe in 10 and 15 years, ESG investing won’t even be a thing, because that’s the default. If you don’t have good ESG, then people aren’t going to be investing their money into you because this is just going to be the default, because we do need to reach the Paris agreement benchmarks and we do need to start doing something for the environment and making sure that there’s good diversity and just like inclusive in companies across the board and not just in their small up and coming ones, just like across the board. So I think that’s super interesting. But something that I’ve found is said you look at a lot of the marketing that companies are doing, and sometimes it’s hard to understand whether it’s actually good ESG or whether it’s just someone putting a green label on it and being like, yes, we’re doing the bare minimum. How do you go about that? What’s the kind of process that you do to take off that we’re not greenwashing? Yeah.


    Jodi Pettersen: What we’re doing, it’s so important. And and as the rise of ESG investing continues to rise, it’s attractive. This question is being asked more and more. And it’s so important because it’s attracting all different players. But back to what I was talking about, that 10 engagement, we think that that’s probably the primary thing that we can do as portfolio managers and fund managers to avoid greenwashing. So we’re not just relying upon a company to fill out a survey with some boxes saying, yeah, we like do good things for society because we like give some money to the local cricket team. We care not just like some like little tick boxing exercise, but when you actually talk to the management of those companies and the board and you can I mean, again, I’m not actually part of the portfolio management team, so I’m kind of speaking on their behalf here. But I know because I, I talk to them every day that they can tell very quickly when companies like, oh, yeah, we care about that great stuff. Oh, yeah, whatever. And then when they actually care about that. Next question. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Apparently they can tell pretty quickly. And what’s really cool is because the team that manages EMC Cube, kind of they’re very active and they’ve built quite a name for themselves.


    Jodi Pettersen: Companies are now actually coming to they’re saying, how do I do better? How could we do better? And this is like the power of investing. It’s like because they want to what they want. They want to they want to be in the portfolio. They want that investment. So they are saying, what can we do? How can we do better? Help us? And that that’s great engagement. I think that’s awesome. So that’s probably the first and most important way to kind of avoid greenwashing. So I would and that’s where active management is. Again, me talking about when active management. Makes sense, it makes sense here. Like they’re just doing an index based approach, which all rules based approach where a lot of other portfolios will just do a rules based approach, so they’ll they’ll wait, put a portfolio in a portfolio based upon like these like, you know, like there’s this all these scoring companies out there that can provide ESG scores on companies. And again, you should turn to the larger companies, not the smaller ones. Another factor, you know, another thing that makes ESG interesting in small caps, but that, you know, these portfolios will create you know, if if it’s got a good ESG school, they’ll they’ll allocate more to it.


    Jodi Pettersen: And it’s got a bad one that less things the rules like that. But when you compare the different scoring providers, they’ll have completely different scores for some of the same companies because their methodology is different. Yeah. And in the end, like it’s pretty easy to greenwashing fudge if you’re just filling out forms to get these like ratings. Right. As opposed to actually speaking with the company. So, again, coming back to life management makes sense. I think like if you hear is is an area where we definitely believe in. That’s why we created on TICU. Another interesting factor is like. And it’s hard this is hard for retail investors like you and I to kind of know, but it’s something that I’ve been privy to just because of my background in the industry. And there’s some fund managers who will just take an existing portfolio and they’re like, oh, we just exclude some stuff, like just get rid of the tobacco, get rid of the like the armaments, you know, get rid of maybe the alcohol stocks or things like that and then label ESG. So they’ve just taken the existing portfolio and then removed stuff that’s no good. And then marketed as an industry portfolio that’s called


    TFIProject: Negative screening,


    Jodi Pettersen: Right? Yeah, that’s called negative screening. And like, that’s a way to do. But if you’re really worried about greenwashing, that’s probably you probably want something that’s more more than that. And you know, like, yeah,


    TFIProject: You don’t want to just like, oh, we’ll just take that one out. That’s obviously not good enough. But yeah, a lot of the time, if you do do that little bit more research into the companies, you’re like, why is this still in here? There’s still a lot of investment in companies that are in the realm of they’re not good corporate governance or like the riskier reputation companies. And but there’s still a lot of investments from companies that look like they’re doing good ESG on the surface. So I think that’s a risk when you are doing ESG investing as as a retail investor you like, how deep do I need to go to know if this is going to be aligned with my values?


    Jodi Pettersen: I understand I think the best the way that I generally tell people to like again, this is not advice, but if you want to. It comes down to do your own research. You know, like, oh, how do I do that? Look at the holdings of the ATF. Each ATF provider, either active and passive, will provide a list of what’s in the portfolio. Then you can look down that list and. You get a lot of insight in that. So there’s some passively managed ETFs out there that have ESG, you know, kind of approaches. When you look at it, they have a really strong weighting to tech, for example, which is not bad in itself, like tech industry. There’s a lot of great things going on. But, you know, if you look deeper again, you’re like, oh, actually, that’s a really big holding into Facebook. And I went, S.G., ethics ethics is interesting because your ethics might be different to mine. And some people think Facebook is doing really great things and yeah, and some people look at Facebook and actually that’s probably the problems there. So that’s where you can look at the listing, the listed of the listing of what’s being held in the portfolio. And you can kind of gut check with your own ethics. And that’s probably a really good way to start. Yeah.


    TFIProject: Yeah, I think so, too. And I also think it’s so interesting, just going a little bit deeper into ETFs. Every time I’m looking at the listing of what’s in there, I’m like, oh, yeah, that’s probably a company I’d invest in just by itself without it being in an ETF. And it’s also a great opportunity to look into these like the holdings and be like, oh, that’s that’s not a company I would have considered, but maybe it is now for like a single stock holding. And I think that. And I mean, obviously do your own research. But seeing a company that you really like in an actively managed ETF kind of legitimizes a little bit more being like, OK, that’s what I thought. I only had limited research available. But people with a lot of research also think the same as me. So, yeah, it’s it’s a really great opportunity to look into what you like and how that scene absolutely necessary.


    Jodi Pettersen: And what’s interesting as well is that things can change. Just because it’s in a portfolio today doesn’t mean it will necessarily be. And that’s more. Yeah, that’s the active manager is to is to adjust so things can change. So if there is a maybe if we’re looking at Airstream, particularly if there’s a big like ESG controversy that happens, that the portfolio managers might change their mind just like you can, too.


    TFIProject: Yeah. What is the disclosure that you guys need to make? How often do you need to disclose holdings?


    Jodi Pettersen: We will disclose who I am. Tacuba disclose the portfolio every month, and that’s disclosed to the ASX and on the website. But that disclosure is two months in arrears. So that means we’re disclosing now the portfolio two months ago. Why do we do it in two months in the reasons it really comes down to the difference between active and passive passive managers. They’re just following a rules based system. So it doesn’t really make a difference if like the timing in terms of when they disclose, because it’s just a rules based system that you can look up anyway. The active managers, a lot of their outperformance and their values derived from how they trade and when they trade. So by delaying the disclosure two months, it protects that information and protects the intellectual property associated with it.


    TFIProject: That totally makes sense. Yeah, that’s super interesting. Yeah. So do you mind if I ask you one final question, which is how. It’s two questions in one. So how has working in funds management influenced your own personal investing? And what advice would you give to your younger self or any young woman looking to get invested now?


    Jodi Pettersen: Definitely. I mean, my role has, of course, influenced the way I personally invest. I’m so lucky to have the level of financial literacy that I have just as a. A default from my job and the exposure to different types of ideas just through, again, what my job is. So I’m really I have to first acknowledge how lucky I am to have that. And also why it’s so great that you’re making this podcast. And like, why I’m so happy to be on here, because I feel like like someone’s interested in that stuff that I learned at work. Like, how cool is that? And to be able to share and hopefully expand the financial literacy of everyone. And so, you know, that’s why often I do like quizzes and stuff on our Instagram page, because


    TFIProject: I love those quizzes. I’m always so excited to see them.


    Jodi Pettersen: I took a quiz on stories. Guys, get amongst it. It’s a real hit. It’s probably my highest engagement thing that I do on Instagram account. But in terms of my personal investments I personally have invested in, I’m just like you and I’ve got a decent chunk of my personal wealth in that I was really lucky that I got in at around four dollars and it’s now like five point eighty something. Five sixty. I can’t remember the exact text today. So I was really fortunate to be able to you know, I was I was lucky. I knew about it all the way when it started Longin. But it’s been a great investment for me personally. And it really aligns with my values. Like I truly believe that ACG is extremely important and is the way of the future. And I’m I’m a I’m all in one of RSJ. So it’s a you know, it’s a great portfolio. It’s done great things for me personally, personally. But again, that’s just a personal endorsement, not a professional one. Please don’t take what I’m saying is financial advice. I’ve also personally also invest in property like most Aussies do. I’ve got my apartment that I’m sitting in right now and then an investment property as well. And I also invest in a couple of other managed funds and also the EIGE portfolio. And I hold investments in that and some other managed funds as well.


    Jodi Pettersen: So if. Like in terms of like advice to my earlier self or any woman is I wish I just started sooner, you know. Yeah. Time is your best friend in this. I should have started so much earlier. But, you know, it’s that also is a factor of many things. And I’m lucky now that I get to do what I I’ve got the disposable income that I can invest now. And I’m super happy with with the way I’m invested. And I want to I love being part of the Instagram community even personally, because it reminds me personally, like, oh, could I get more? I’ve got to do more and more and more and more. I think, you know, time is your best friend. And so the earlier you can start, the better in terms of like the conversations I have on our Instagram page and I have with investors, I talk to a lot of investors every week. So the stuff that comes up the most, I get a lot of questions about the platform, like which broker to use, which is really interesting because I, I don’t think that’s as for me in terms of like the impact it has on your life or not on your future investments. I think it’s one of the lower impact decisions that you make. You know, if you’re buying just to hope for the long term, which is personally how I like to invest, and I’m not I’m not I don’t tweet frequently.


    Jodi Pettersen: I just buy and hold. But yeah, I like saving about that was what Tindall’s and brokerage like. And spending lots of time researching brokers. I’m like, it’s good that they want to do that. But I think that question dominates a lot of the discussion. And I personally would love to see the discussion evolve into more like what you investing in and why as opposed to the how. I think there’s I feel like the online discussion is very dominated by Halik what broker and brokerage fees and all that stuff. And I just think it can that can almost be a hindrance to new investors, because I think it’s just like it’s another decision like that. They have to kind of way up and research. Yeah, I, I think that it’d be better off like a lot of people would be better off taking that energy and then redoing it and researching the actual investment ETFs or whatever they want to invest in, like doing that research where you drill down into the holdings or listening to the podcasts with people like you. Like, I feel like that’s probably more broadly where I would like to see more energy being put, because I think that’s a lot more high value kind of decisions than just what I use.


    TFIProject: I agree. And I think that the the really important thing to know is that so, first of all, in the last year, I’ve seen at least five new brokerage platforms just come up. Yeah. So even though you may have done a lot of research last year to find your platform, now there are new ones. And there’s also with a lot of platforms, especially when you’re early in your investing, just change it in five years and it’s a smaller cost. But the year that you’ve spent choosing your broker over actually investing, that covers that more than Covid any changes in brokerage platforms you might have over the years. So I think that that’s a really good point, that you just want to get started and then going drilling to that when you feel like you’re settled with what you know, what you want to invest in and look for those savings, but don’t make it a priority.


    Jodi Pettersen: Yeah. We all have only limited energy, limited space in our head for research, limited time and and decision fatigue, I think is real in this space because there’s so many so much terminology. There’s so much choice. Yeah. So be selective of how you spend your time and energy in terms of researching and in my. I would love to see that directed more to products and less less took less to platform.


    TFIProject: That’s awesome. So where can we find out more about invest here, more from you in your polls on Instagram?


    Jodi Pettersen: Oh, yes. Well, our Instagram is my favorite way to communicate with people. And so our handle invest aiyu in the east aiyu. And and we also on the other social media channels as well. Haven’t gone to ticktock yet, though.


    TFIProject: Oh, I think Tick-Tock is really hard. It makes me nervous


    Jodi Pettersen: And I’m scared of tick tock, but I did notice that they included a little feature where you can do like poll questions. So like, oh, maybe my my fun little quiz could be taken out to tick tock anyway. Tick tock. So we’re not on there, but everywhere else for that. Our website, of course, is where you find the bulk of information. So that’s Ian Invest dot com today. There’s a little chat bot that will pop up on the right bottom right hand side when you go to our website. And that is actually directed to me. So I went the checkbook. Yes, sir. And you want to have questions. That’s also another way you can reach out to me. I’m a man that check out Monday to Friday, nine to five. So I have lots of people. People love the checkbook. We have a phone number and stuff and email. People don’t use that anymore. They use the checkbook. So it’s so interesting just seeing like like, you know, we’ve had investors been around for a little while now, but we’re still fairly new. And we we try and take an experimental approach where we do try these things. You know, there’s not many other fund managers who are on Instagram actively. Yeah, I don’t think there’s any on Tick Tock, and I’m not sure if I’m ready to be the first one. But like we try all different ways to connect with with with people, because we think that like I genuinely believe that like finance has been this like tall ivory tower in the city of CBD in Melbourne.


    Jodi Pettersen: But these people in suits sit out really high and disconnected from everyone around the world. You know, everyone, normal people. And that is, you know, and films like Wolf of Wall Street have like not done anything. But the reality is, is these portfolios, our portfolios, I manage by real people. I’m a real person. Finance is actually about real people. There’s no finance without without the people that actually make the decisions every day that communicate with investors every day, all these things. It’s a people business. And so I think personally, I feel like I want to invest to be the most accessible to anybody. So I want you to please reach out to me and ask questions. Please hit me up on the chat whenever on Instagram. Dm’s, I don’t care, because I think that there’s so much that to for the society to be to gain from having investing accessable and you like it’s a great structure. And I’m sure you’ve talked about that in your podcast before, as as a way of such a great way of making investing easy and accessible for people. And I just want to see more of that. So that’s a really long way of saying, please come to our website or our Instagram and chat with me. Yeah, well, I


    TFIProject: Was going to say, well, you’ve made it even more accessible today on the podcast with me. So thank you so much for joining. It’s been a real pleasure chatting with you.


    Jodi Pettersen: I’ve had so much fun.


    TFIProject: Yeah, we should do it more often.


    Jodi Pettersen: Sure. We really talked about I’m becu diary because there’s so much more to talk about.


    TFIProject: Exactly. I’ll do my research into the other things so then we can talk about things. Well, thank you so much. Anyone listening? You will hear from me very soon. And you can hear from Jodi on your best. So thank you so much. Thank you. On top of all of the places we talked about, where you can hear from Jodi and learn more about Ian best, Jodi has also very generously organized a URL specific to the Female Investors Project Head to invest dot com forward slash TFI project. If you want more resources curated by Jodi for the Female Investors Project, go check it out. And thank you so much for listening.