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    Learning to ‘Love’ Active ETFs – The Alpha Females Invest

    Camilla Love, Managing Director of eInvest joins the AFI podcast to chat about why you should be adding active ETFs to your investment watch list.

    The Alpha Females Invest and Camilla cover:

    • The growth of ETFs
    • How to access to financial instruments
    • Importance of Women in Finance
    • Active vs passive management
    • Starting eInvest and their Funds
    • Founding F3 to foster young women in the industry

    Thank you again for having Camilla on the podcast. Happy investing!

    Disclaimer: Please note that these are the views of the author, Jodi Pettersen, Investor Relations, eInvest,  and is not financial advice.

    To find out how to invest in our active ETFs, visit here. The product disclosure statement and more can be found at www.einvest.com.au

    If you’d like to keep learning further, please feel free to follow any of our socials listed below.

    Transcription

    Emilie: Welcome back to the Alpha Females Invest podcast, two females working in the finance industry seeking alpha. My name is Emily

     

    Cluny: And my name is Cluny. And together we bring diversified perspectives from the buy and sell side of the finance world. We seek to elevate female voices in the finance industry to provide our business with diversified perspectives. And today is no exception to that with our guests, Camilla Love, who is managing director and founder of eInvest and if that’s not enough. Also founder of EF3 Future Females and Finance. Camilla is a senior funds management professional with over 18 years experience in business strategy, sales, client management, operations and marketing. Welcome to the show, cam. It’s great to have you on today.

     

    Camilla Love: Hi, guys. Thanks for having me. So excited.

     

    Emilie: I love the energy, so we’ll just kick off with a little disclaimer as we always do. So, as usual, any information discussed in the podcast is not financial advice. All opinions reflect those of the individuals, and you should always read the pads and talk to a financial advisor who can consider your personal circumstances before you invest. So back to our focus on Cam, which is our episode today. She’s had a very successful career with perennial, and after a little while, actually a long while, she took the leap and founded eInvest. And for those who haven’t heard of eInvest before, they’re a provider of active ETFs. And the eInvest team are a very passionate group of finance professionals who provide the market with easy tradable investment solutions that investors can buy and sell as they would any other share on the market. And today we’ll dive into the role of ETFs and discuss when active management makes sense in a portfolio. As our listeners know, we like to start each episode asking our guests to reveal an embarrassing career moment. But before we get started, I actually wanted to throw Clooney under the bus here, and she’s definitely not expecting this. So it hasn’t always been smooth sailing over here at Alpha Females Invest, and I think it’s time we let our audience in on a little bit of a secret and share our most embarrassing podcast moment. So Clunes, can you please share with everyone our little hiccup?

    Cluny: This was definitely not in the preamble, and you’ve really caught me off guard here, and I wasn’t planning on telling our listeners this so soon.

    But I think the moment is referring to is when we first started this podcast, obviously the enthusiastic people that Emily and I thought we needed all the gear with clearly no idea. So we went out to Officeworks and we bought the state of the art sort of podcast recording machine new microphones. And for our very first episode, which if you’ve listened to the show, was with Elise Kennedy at Jarden on Technology. We set up a time with her and we were super excited and we get into the recording studio and I start setting all this up. Now, look, we probably should have decided to set this up prior to our first episode, but luckily we were friends with Elise and she sort of knew us on a first name basis, so we thought we’d be good to go. After about half an hour of going back and forth, we realized the memory chip card, which I had gone to Officeworks and bought, wasn’t reading in our machine. And then I just could not work out why, like back and forth, back and forth, we think this is really simple. This should be really simple. And anyway, we ended up having to scratch the episode altogether and just record it on our laptops in the most basic form of podcast recording.

     

    Cluny: There is, anyway. The next day I decided I’d solve this issue and I went into Officeworks and started chatting to the guy there, and I was like, Hey, mate, I bought this, you know, Chip, it doesn’t work, and I’m really annoyed because I was trying to record this podcast episode. And, you know, I really don’t think it’s good enough. And I started on a bit of a preamble and he looked at me and he said, Yeah, did you? Did you insert the chip? And I said, Yeah, yeah, we did. And he’s like, No, no. There’s two chips like the little chip has to go in the big chip. And I just blankly looked at him and I was like, Right, OK, yep. And then I definitely didn’t do that. He must have just thought I was the biggest blonde bimbo going around town. And since then we’ve now learnt how to use a memory card chip. And I would say that is definitely by far our most embarrassing podcast moment.

    Camilla Love: Ooh, everyone’s going to go through one of those.

    Emilie: Oh, it’s hilarious. But who knew that the little SD card had to go into the biggest day card? I’m sorry. When digital cameras were a thing, there was not a little SD card that slits into the big SD card. That’s all I’m going to say.

    Cluny: I totally agree and I’ve run. I’ve told this story to is actually often on my side in that they say, you know, I would have totally thought the same thing, but then you tell people and they’re like, obviously, and you’re like, OK, you re right? But enough about us, cam, can we hear about your most embarrassing career moment? And hopefully it can top that?

    Camilla Love: Yeah, it probably will. Right. So we’ve all done emails to clients and stuff like that, but my probably most embarrassing moment, which wasn’t embarrassing at the time, but now I reflect on it is quite embarrassing is I put my hand up for everything as well knows, and I put my hand up to be the chair of the Christmas Event Committee for Women in Super a couple of years ago. And I want to go out on a Big Bang and all this sort of stuff, and we’re organizing prizes for the raffle. And someone had organized a prize for some Zubeidat think right? And I’m like, great. Some of them saying, you know, it’s free, like 10 passes go for your life. And they said, OK, great, we’ll give it to you if you allow our dancers to come and dance at the introduction at the Christmas event, I’m like, OK, cool. And it was circus themed and all this sort of stuff. So it was all very in there, right? But the ladies turned up as Brazilian dancers with all the feathers and not much on right. And so the whole industry there was like 600 people.

    Emilie: They’re professionals. I’m assuming working professionals, working professionals.

    Camilla Love: But you know what? For me, it was all about female. They were doing fabulous stuff, and I love what they were doing and I just thought the vibe was great and all that sort of stuff. And then I had to go and front the committee, like two days later about why I had organized these pretty scantily clad ladies to come to this Christmas event. And can I say that it wasn’t embarrassing at the time, but now I reflect on it. It was highly embarrassing, and thankfully no one holds me against that because these ladies. That was very skilled at what they did. It just probably wasn’t quite appropriate.

    Emilie: Bit of a swing and a miss, but that’s fun. We all have.

     

    Camilla Love: We all do it. It’s always something, right? And you know, if I had half their skill, I would probably do that as well. But yeah, for all those, you know, people in superannuation who are, you know, running lots of money and who are relatively conservative, it probably wasn’t right.

     

    Cluny: I hope you run the Zumba classes, Camila,

     

    Camilla Love: One of the more conservative. Yeah, you’ll find me in the park generally doing some sort of yoga or body attack. I’m there. Woo woo cupping the hands and doing all the kicks. I’ll guarantee you’ll find me in the park.

     

    Emilie: Look, that was pretty good. We did have a guest who decided to strip down into his undies and jump into the pool in front of his boss.

     

    Camilla Love: So kind of on the on the same page.

     

    Emilie: Anyway, back to the business end of things, which is really what we do here, and we really want to get behind some of the key thematic in the industry. And I guess you are the go to ETF expert.

     

    Camilla Love: So I was

     

    Emilie: Hoping you could explain a little bit around the mechanics of an ETF and why they’re surging in popularity at the moment. I know it’s definitely a way that I personally invest in, that I encourage others to invest. But can you talk us through why the market likes it and how it really works?

     

    Camilla Love: Yeah, sure. So ETFs stand for exchange traded funds, and that’s what they are in a nutshell. So a fund that is found on the exchange that you can buy and sell just like a share like you intro earlier on. And they are a really great way to invest, and that’s for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it is all about accessing great quality investments and really democratizing investing for people like you and me and everybody else out there who is really interested, particularly those who are wanting to start investing. It’s a really great way to essentially put your toe in the water for not a lot of money. So a lot of the brokers, maybe you can start at about $500 to get invested, and investing in one ETF can give you up to two thousand access to two thousand companies or securities. And that’s a really great way to start and understanding investment markets, different asset classes, diversification, all the general sort of the stuff that is everybody takes advantage of when investing, and I think that’s a really great way of doing it. So we talked about a little bit about diversification, and I think that’s a really good way of starting because a lot of people, when they do start investing in ETFs, they might not have a lot of money, right? So putting $500 to work in one CBA share might get you, I don’t know, five or four CBA shares right now, maybe even less, maybe three where, you know, investing in an ETF for five hundred dollars could get you multiple units that can get you access to.

     

    Camilla Love: You know, a whole bunch of companies and securities, the other reason why I think ETFs are really good and have increased in popularity of late is because they’re really simple and easy to access, particularly it’s a one stop shop. It is very simple, like you and I, when we go and shop naturally for clothes or for groceries and stuff like that, you just go online a couple of clicks and you check out and it gets delivered the next day. ETFs are sort of the same. So gone are the days where you needed twenty five thousand dollars and a twenty eight page application form to complete. You can just go on through your broker. It’s connected to your hand. It’s one spot that you can go and access, and it’s really simple. And I think that’s the reason, you know, there are three reasons why ETFs are increasing in popularity. It’s one of the fastest areas of growth in the financial services market right now. And, you know, I really love being involved in it.

     

    Cluny: I’d love to delve into that point that you just made. Then a little more, you know, you touched on sort of the $25000 amount that, you know, probably in the past, professional management exposure required that type of minimum investment to go into a trust. You know, that is clearly inaccessible for I would think most people, definitely and myself included in that bucket. ETFs, as you mentioned, obviously have a much lower minimum investment amount. How do you think access to financial products sort of promote financial inclusion in the retail market? And how are you seeing that play out as we move forward?

     

    Camilla Love: Oh, it’s they’re critical, a critical part of the education process of people. It is a critical part of understanding how investment markets work, you know, and it’s also an easy stepping off point, you know, to save to twenty five thousand dollars in the past to get to that point where you want to make an investment. And then the research you need to do and all that sort of stuff, the risk involved is huge where, you know, putting $500 to work in an ETF, you know, it’s much less risk to start with, particularly you guys know well with investing. The hardest part is to start, right? And what that’s doing is creating a whole new influx of investors to come into the market, as you mentioned. And I think particularly over this last little while, you know, it’s gone from, I think, you know, one hundred and fifty one hundred and sixty thousand people investing in ETFs to over half a million people investing in ETFs alone and a really, really short period of time. And it’s really about what I said earlier, the democratization of it, making it so easy and simple for people to access. And, you know, go on to the days where investing was for the uber rich, right? Investing is for everyday people these days, and ETFs is at the centre of that movement, which I really love.

     

    Emilie: Yeah, I love that point on financial inclusion, and it’s something that, you know, we have spoken a little bit about on this podcast because it’s so important that people can get access to quality, but also diversified investment products. I have had some financial advisors not understand the difference between a lick and an ETF, and it’s the differences are quite significant, particularly that leaks in the past have had mixed reviews. So can you talk us through what are the difference between ETFs and leaks and why that’s relevant?

     

    Camilla Love: Yeah, the different for a few reasons, and it’s really important, as you say, again, to point these out. So the first point that I would like to make is that ETFs are what we call open ended and LICs so listed investment companies are closed ended. That means that for a LIC, you only have a certain amount of shares on offer. And that is it right? So you can buy and sell that amount of shares on offer where an ETF is open ended, which means that there are more and more units available to increase or decrease as investors are buying and selling. And so that’s really a really critical point on the differentiation. Another point is the fact that ETFs use what we call a market maker, and they provide liquidity in the buying and selling of units where market makers are generally missing from buying and selling units in LICs. So what that means is that there is greater liquidity in it. In addition to that, ETFs have something associated with a. Told an IMF, which is an indicative net asset value, so I never write, and what that means is it is an indication and as a price every second, so every second that’s out there and in our best price for our funds. So every second investors can see what the value of our fund is moving up and down with where LICs generally there is a price to NTA or something that’s offered maybe once a month.

     

    Camilla Love: And what that is actually all about. And you add it with the market maker, you put them together. It’s all about price discovery. And that’s a critical part of why the ETF trades closer to nav than what an LIC would. So, you know, you mentioned before and that, you know, LICs have a bad name in the past, and that’s a function of the fact that they can trade at a premium or discount to nav and generally in the lion’s share, they have traded at a discount. You know, it’s a function of its company, its company costs that are coming out of it. All that sort of stuff ETF less so that way. So there are significant differences between ETFs and lessees and well worth as an investor to understand those and understand. And I know that ASIC views ETFs a little bit more in a brighter light, probably than LICs. Listeners have had a place in the past, and they have a place currently that has assets that are lowly tradeable or have low price discovery where ETFs really need to have high price discovery assets found in them. So it’s well worth having a bit of a research yourselves on what the two differences are and how comfortable you are with each format. But my view is that ETFs are the modern day version and a better version of it LSC, but that’s different for everybody’s views.

     

    Cluny: That’s really interesting. And I think, you know, understanding the key differences with similar products is really key to starting your investing journey. So turning back to eInvest specifically, Camilla, can I ask why you decided to launch active ETFs instead of passive? And can you sort of explain to us what that difference means to you?

     

    Camilla Love: Yeah. Okay, so investors, you mentioned we’re all about active ETFs, right? The ETF market in the past has all been known for passively managed ETFs. And if you look particularly at the US ETF market, 99 per cent of it is passively managed ETFs, right? Let’s talk about passive management. What that means is that they’re following an index, right? So and that index could be anything. It could be the S&P five hundred. It could be the ASX 300. It could be some ESG index. It could be an index that the ETF issuer has built themselves, right? So you need to understand what is in that index and whether that fits for you, right? Why we built actively managed ETFs and what we do with actively manage ETFs to us, what that means is tapping into investment professionals and providing active management where we believe active management makes sense and we’re generally trying to beat a benchmark or achieve an outcome. So whether that outcome be an income based outcome, that sort of rhymes. So forgive me for that or whether that is to beat an absolute return or cash benchmark or relative return benchmark saying small caps, for example, and there’s a place for both. Definitely. So our view at eInvest is it’s not active or passive. It’s active and passive together and together, they should build you a whole portfolio that should aim to grow your wealth and achieve your goals, right? Whatever those goals could be. At best, we believe active management makes sense in certain asset classes, small caps being one of them, fixed interest being one of them, you know, income generation definitely being one of them.

     

    Camilla Love: And what we do is we partner with high quality institutional quality asset managers, fund managers and bring their skills into the ETF market. So that’s one reason why we’ve focused on active ETFs. The other space that when I was building eInvest, my view was the fact that there was a gaping hole for active management in the ETF market, right? And it wasn’t until really six or seven years ago that we were able to fill that hole, right? There’s new structures, and the regulators allowed more flexibility in the way the ETFs were traded and all that sort of stuff. And so in passively managed funds, it’s really hard to differentiate yourself from any other manager. Right? So if you are a passively managed fund and you’re covering the S&P 500 and another brand name covers the S&P five hundred, essentially it’s the same thing. It has the same stocks in it, with the same weights generally at the same fees. And so it’s really hard to differentiate with active management. The world is your oyster about differentiation. And so my view was that gaping hole needs to be filled by someone and that someone was going to be atheist. And so that’s how it eInvests sort of started. And that’s what active management means to us.

     

    Emilie: That makes complete sense. And we’ve had a couple of guests talk about passive versus active. And so it’s great to hear an active perspective. But I guess one of the biggest pushbacks that we have had on active is that the fees are typically higher than those in passive funds. And from what you’ve explained, probably makes sense, given that there’s likely more work involved in active. What do you say to investors who are concerned about the fee hurdle? Because I guess I know a lot of my non financially literate friends who are very smart people, but just not financial literate and who read, for example, the barefoot investor, which tells them go for the funds with the lowest fees. Can you kind of give a bit of context to why there’s that difference and maybe why it doesn’t necessarily always mean the best outcome with the lowest fees?

     

    Camilla Love: Sure. And yes, active managers do generally have higher fees. So we’ll put that up front and I’m not hiding from that at all, right? But sometimes in life, you get what you pay for, right? If you’re going to pay for peanuts, you get peanuts, right? My view is I would never scrimp on champagne and chocolates. I would happily pay top dollar for those. But I will maybe scrimp on like cooking plain flour and all that sort of stuff and maybe cling wrap, right? So my view on that sort of stuff is active management makes sense in some certain asset classes and does not make sense in others, right? So passively managed where it makes sense there and actively manage and pay up for areas where you think you can add value and actually pay a little bit more. Because what I talk to investors about a lot is net of fee returns, right? So it’s great that you’re going to pay 30 basis points or less for a passive fund, but by definition, those fees will be taken out of a benchmark return. So you’re going to get less than the benchmark return anyway. Perfectly fine, right? And sure, with active management, you know, the people who are running the money are actually taking active bets on where the outperformance is going to come from. And sometimes they win and sometimes they lose, right? But when you have a fund that is 7.2 percent above benchmark and has returned thirty six point seven percent net of fees for the year, it’s really meaningful that no net of fees, right? So you need to take that into account when you’re putting your whole portfolio together, so you’re scrimping and saving where it makes sense and paying up where it makes sense. And I definitely wouldn’t scrimp to save on cheap champagne because it only gives you a headache tomorrow morning.

     

    Cluny: Camilla, I couldn’t agree more with you on both points. Firstly, the champagne and secondly, the active management. But you know, I think that’s interesting, you know, active managing where you believe you can add value. And I think that slides nicely into my next question, which is what is your favourite eInvest product? What are the types of products available in the market today? And you know, from a value perspective, where do you see the biggest opportunity?

     

    Camilla Love: Yeah. Clearly, this is like asking me if I have a favourite child, right? Very difficult, very difficult. But of course, you do have favourites. You just don’t really want to say them.

     

    Cluny: So I know I’m the favourite child, Camilla.

     

    Camilla Love: Yeah, my mom always told me I was the best child of her. She never told me I was a favourite. I don’t necessarily think I was. But anyway, what I would say is I have a couple, so IMPQ. the better future fund, but Em knows pretty well is a cracking fund like it really is. And I love this fund for multiple different reasons. You know, it has a great team behind it. It has fabulous performance. And I knew when I built eInvest and I wrote the business plan five years ago that this product was going to be the first, if not the. Seconds, and it was the second product off the rack, right, and at the time, we actually didn’t have a product that looked like this at all. Right. And I remember sitting back there grinding my business plan, going, I need this phone. I want to have a sustainable fund and I want it to be in small and mid-caps and sitting there and, you know, building the investment process and looking at the marketing of it and finding the gap in the market for it. There was a gaping hole for this type of fund. And, you know, looking back now on the initial beginnings of that and knowing where it has come from to where it is now and where it’s going to go to is just so fills my cup. I love that, right? So it’s so rewarding.

     

    Camilla Love: It’s so rewarding. And I love the fact that not only do I get that warmth every day, but as an investor myself in the fund, the font you are backing companies that are doing better for society, that are creating better outcomes, you know, in tech and MedTech and renewable energy and all these other great, great companies. For me, it’s like a meeting of the minds, right? I love that you invest, invest. Our clients have embraced this fund wholeheartedly, and I can’t wait to see where it’s going to go. So favourite child number one five, a child number two is equal, which is our core income fund. And, you know, fixed income in it, really. Equities focus market. So ETFs are very much equities focused, right? ETFs with fixed income as their underlying assets have only relatively been new, maybe the last three or four years in the markets. And you know, it’s a consistent performer. The fixed income asset class, I think, is underrated and overlooked by everyday investors because everyone’s chasing returns and not necessarily looking about out about the holistic portfolio. The role of fixed income for insurance and downside protection. And you know, it’s again, a cracking little fund. And yeah, I can’t wait to see whether that kind of goes to. So you have to have me back on with a couple of years time so I can say, Hey, look where they’ve come from. I look real.

     

    Emilie: We’ll make you choose next time.

     

    Camilla Love: Oh no, no, can’t use.

    Emilie: So you name the fund, IMPQ. You talked about the benefits of active management where it makes sense. So let’s have the conversation about performance. What has the performance of the products been since launch? Are investors getting that active management value that you speak to?

     

    Camilla Love: Yeah, of course. So let’s start from the top. So the first fund that was listed for eInvest is EIGA. So the income generator fund, it’s an equity income fund. And so its target is not about capital return, it’s actually about income return. And its target is a seven percent per annum gross yield and it has achieved that.

     

    Emilie: That’s pretty high given that if I put my money in a bank right now, I’m getting probably negative percent because I’m paying fees.

     

    Camilla Love: Yeah, yeah, indeed. And it is one of the highest yielding ETFs in the market out there. So it’s been doing really well. It’s been giving investors exactly what they’re invested. You know, my view is you have to do what you say on the box, and EIGA is definitely doing what it says on the box. So it’s worth it. Definitely. Second fund that was listed was, I think I’ve already mentioned performance for them. It is cracking fund. You know, it has got really big returns and it’s well worth people actually going to have a look at those returns specifically. So it’s doing really, really well. And I think it’s also it’s really tapping into a scene in the market for sustainability investing and companies that are really focused on that. So I think that’s really good. And the fixed income products, initially that had a really tough time. So within four months of starting the COVID crash occurred, which crashes happen all the time. But you don’t want them to happen in the first, like little while of a fund that is saying that both of them A. iMacs have done really well again, consistent return as they do what they say on the box. It caused me to achieve a two to three percent return above cash, and it’s meeting that target and IMAX is more like a three to four percent return. It’s a little bit underneath that target because of that COVID piece. But again, if you invested today, I’m sure that you’ll get what it sets, you will over time. So we’ve been well supported in all our funds through our investors. We’ve got, you know, a couple of thousand these days, which I’m pretty excited about, and we’re getting over 100 a week, which is really exciting.

     

    Cluny: That’s a pretty impressive. We have numbers that you just rattled off that Camilla, and I think, you know, even though we’re recording this remotely, given the current lockdown situation in New South Wales, you know your passion is clearly contagious. So I’d love to know how did eInvest come about and what is its core mission?

     

    Camilla Love: And this came about. My background is actually an institutional sales, so I would go and sell to the large superannuation funds, and I spent most of my time doing that for probably about nine years before starting to invest. It started because my boss popped his head over the petition one day and said, Come on, well, what do you think of the ETF market? And I said, had you had read my MBA thesis that I delivered on your desk three years ago, you’d know. And so he asked me to dust it off and write a business plan. And then a week later, he said, What do you want to do about this? And I said, I want to run the business. So that’s what Ian this is today, and that’s how it all came about. I can’t wait till

     

    Cluny: I have my own light bulb moment and also create a super stellar financial elevating business as well.

     

    Emilie: Are you not on affi?

     

    Camilla Love: And that was your view.

     

    Cluny: Like, we’ve done this, we already have this.

     

    Emilie: So I’m going to combine a couple of questions in one. But I guess the key point of the questions is to talk a little bit about the competitive position of eInvest and a bit more background into its strategy and its business model. So firstly, how long have you been around for? You said kind of. You create a business plan about five years ago, but there’s obviously a longer history with perennial there. What is the total farm? So funds under management for your products at the moment? And what are your medium and long term aspirations? I’m sure they’re aspirational. And then can you also tell us who would be your biggest competitors and who else is in the space and maybe your point of difference?

     

    Camilla Love: Yeah, sure. So I’ve been with perennial for nearly 20 years, so I started as a grad and with my way out from there. So that’s generally unheard of these days. But I guess the business has been able to give me enough rope for me to swim in. And I’ve lived up to everyone’s expectations so far, and that’s how I sort of got the opportunity to start to eInvest. The first fund actually was listed on the 7th of May two thousand eighteen and that was EIGA and we’ve had a number of funds since that point in time. So it probably took about 18 months before that to put the product in the operational bits and pieces together. So that’s sort of how, you know, that’s how long it’s been around for where we’ve talked about the differentiation between why eInvest is different in the ETF market than our competitors. But our biggest competitors are, of course, the passive guys because generally they have the lion’s share of inflows that are coming in. And they’re the likes of Vanguard, iShares, Beta Shares, VanEck and there are a number of single smaller competitors, single fund sort of competitors that are coming into the market now because it is one of the growth areas in financial services. But you know, my view is, as I mentioned before, if we can carve out the active only component within the market, and so everyone knows that we stand for active management where active management makes sense, they can come here to buy their product that will hopefully outperform over time. We’re just shy of 80 mil across our funds. Our goal is to be at 100 ml by December, and hopefully we’ll make it before then and close to hundred mill by June of next year. And ideally, and you’ll have to have me on in five years time. I want to be at half a bill by June twenty three, so we’ll see how that goes.

     

    Emilie: Come on, AFI listeners. Let’s get her there.

     

    Camilla Love: Yes, go team.

     

    Cluny: If you’re at half a billion AUM and we can be at half a billion listeners.

     

    Camilla Love: Oh, OK, let’s do this. Maybe we should do a percentage. The right price? Totally. We should put a price on the end of this, a bottle of champagne. Yeah, that’s the fun being there.

     

    Cluny: Well, you’ve got me on board, Camilla. And clearly this sounds like a fantastic business, so I’m sure our listeners and myself would love to know how can we get access to eInvest?

     

    Camilla Love: Yeah, absolutely. So the easiest way is to either head to your online broker and search for one of the ticker codes. I think you, I get a. any max and go from there, you can head to the eInvest website, einvest.com.au

    , and there’s a How to Invest page on our website. That will take you through everything. If you’re unsure so well worth doing that, you know, no financial advice given, as you said earlier on, and you need to read the PDFs before you invest. It’s really critical that you will understand the risks involved with each investment you’re going to make, and that goes with every investment, just not ETFs or invest in ETFs. So really think about that. And we we’re big supporters of the newer brokers that are popping up around these days. So people like pearler and superhero and the like, you know, it’s really great to see new entrants come into the market to help and target new investors and make their journey into investing a little easier and a little simpler. And so if you’re interested in and you don’t have a broker that you’re associated with already, it’s well worth checking them out. But you have to go through a broker or financial advisor to access our ETFs, and you just trade them on the exchange just like you do a shit.

     

    Emilie: Thanks for that, Cam. I guess I wanted to go to a little bit more about investments kind of brand strategy. So when I look at eInvest, I think that it’s really modernizing how investors think about investment. You know, you’re active on social media, you do lots of media presentations, you’re writing content, it’s on the website, you’re connecting with the millennial. So why did you position the brand to be more modern than kind of the traditional investment managers that we know? And how important is social media for financial and investment ideas and advice going forward, given that we’re seeing the increasing popularity of, you know, influencers? I mean, Clooney and I are doing a podcast, there’s lots of financial podcasts out there. Can you talk about the role of kind of, I guess, the free advice model as well,

     

    Camilla Love: Because that is quite typical. Yeah. So it’s social media. Talking to people in their own language is really key to eInvest communication strategy, and we really want it to be simple, approachable and easy to understand. And I think that that is just such a fresh and modern way to look at fund management and investing brands. You know, for us, no question is a dumb question, and a lot of our investors just ring us up to ask questions, whether that be, you know, what are the fees or tell me a little bit about it or, you know, even just to chat to the fact that you’re a real person, that sort of stuff. And we love that we want to educate as many people as possible about investing, and we like to have a good time. We don’t take ourselves obviously seriously. And, you know, investing can be so serious, sometimes like too serious. And I think, you know, we like to be nimble and small, and we have a high performing team and that’s what I want the Airbus brand to be portrayed about. You know, gone are the days. You know, I think there’s so many fund managers and forgive me, I’ll go to square right that look like they have a carrot stuck up their ass, right? Talking to mum and dad, you know, every day investors, no one wants that anymore.

     

    Camilla Love: No one wants you to stand on a pedestal from up high and preach to everybody else, right? You don’t want that. We want to have a conversation with you, not at you. And a lot of financial brands do that. And I think that’s where the influencers are coming in because they again, this is the theme of democratizing financial products. But this is democratizing financial advice, right? And they are very quick to say they don’t give advice right? And ask is really looking at this segment really hard about making sure that that line is not great. It’s definitely black and white, but what these influencers are particularly doing is being very open about what their net worth is and, you know, their philosophy of investing and things like that, right? And I really love that because like my parents never talked to me about investing at all, right? You can now pick up your phone and go through Instagram and find out, you know, some influencer who’s 24 has two hundred and eighty five thousand dollars in net worth? Great. I love that, right? And I think that there is that. I mean, we want to be fresh.

     

    Camilla Love: And I guess the other thing for us, for your listeners to understand is that behind us, we have a fund management firm who backs us that we partner with. And, you know, they have 20 year pedigree. They have $7.5 billion in assets under management. We tap into all their legal risk and compliance, and it’s that basis that we. When you have the freedom and the flexibility to be able to be a challenger brand in the financial services space, and I, you know, I really love that social media is just a way to communicate with our investors and you guys could already tell I love to talk, you know, give me a podium and I’m happy to either dance or I’ll talk into a microphone. Either way, podiums good for me. And social media is just one of those. And whether that’s an investor who decides to pick up the phone, dial the number and talk to me or whether they want to DM across Instagram or Facebook, perfectly fine, they can visit the chat bot. They talk to real people on the chat bot. We just want to be simple, easy, approachable, and you know, I have a principle no dickheads, right? That’s essentially what eInvest is all about.

     

    Cluny: I think that point about having conversations with you, not at you is so pertinent in the world we live in. And, you know, I think that’s sort of one of the key reasons behind him and I doing this podcast, you know, we really want to speak with different people about different products that are in the market in, you know, not feel like we’re standing on a pedestal and necessarily dictating what people should do with their money. I think there’s so many different ways you can invest, and I just think it really opens up the realm

     

    Camilla Love: To all,

     

    Cluny: All opportunities on the table. So I really appreciate what you’re doing. And I do think, you know, it really aligns well with

     

    Camilla Love: Our core values as well.

     

    Cluny: So before we finish you off, I do have a question in terms of what can we expect to come from eInvest in the future? You know, what are the opportunities or sectors of the market that you think retail investors currently have limited access to? And where do you see the big opportunities in the next two to five years?

     

    Camilla Love: Yeah, it’s a great question. And you know, it is very much a watch this space. So we have in a couple of months, we’re launching a global hybrid fund. Most Australian investors know what hybrids are. Most of them have an allocation to them, mainly in the big four banks, but global hybrids, much deeper universe, good relative returns and it will diversify your portfolio away from the big four, which I think is really critical for Australian investors to get amongst. So we’re definitely doing that. We’re looking at a couple of global investment opportunities with some really good and high quality partners. So it’s watch this space

     

    Emilie: Not giving too much away, so investors will have to follow the journey.

     

    Camilla Love: Exactly. You’ve got to you’ve got to join our newsletter to work out the nuance.

     

    Emilie: I guess our final professional question. We’re very focused on gender diversity. I mean, it’s in our name. You know, we strive to have equal representation of female guests because we think there’s not necessarily enough platforms for females to demonstrate their financial leadership. So I guess it’s also a passion of yours. Well, not I guess. I know it’s also a passion of yours. And you’ve started three future females in finance and you also have your own podcast, which is called shares, not shoes. So can you give us a bit of background to your work in the space and why it’s important to you?

     

    Camilla Love: Yeah, sure. I love this space. I love education, I love investing. And, you know, driving the pipeline of highly talented females into our industry to make it more robust and better for the future, I think is really, really critical. And it sort of came about a couple of years ago when I was in head of institutional and, you know, I was getting peppered with questions about where the females were in my investment team. And thankfully, it’s changed a little now. But back in the day, the answer was a big fat donut and it was very disappointing. So I can’t change anything in lots of other people’s organisations, but what I can do is educate the next generation. So that’s what F Freeze stands for, is educating girls from years 10 all the way through to the end of their journey at university. And we do that through panel sessions and other education pieces, showcasing great role models and providing practical work experience. And it’s really about nudging the talent through the industry, giving them the network that they need, giving them experience and the skills. I mean, these days, you know, it is about Hugh who you know and how are you going to get in and all that sort of stuff. It’s not necessarily about what you know, and I’m trying to get as many girls into the industry as possible and giving them the skills and the platform to do that.

     

    Camilla Love: And I’ll read you something that I got emailed this week. And so I send a whole bunch of girls through work experience, an online experience program with S3’s corporate partners. And it just. Fills my cup, there is not a day or a week that goes past that I don’t get an email from one of these girls that either says, you know, thanks, it was a fabulous opportunity, whatever. But I’ll read you this one that I got this week because it was really amazing. It says tequila. I cannot express enough how grateful I am for being able to participate in the F3 program was well structured and gave me great insight into the finance industry as a woman who hopes to go into finance. I was definitely intimidated by the industry, but this program not only left me feeling supported and empowered, and I can’t thank you enough for this and that is what it all is about in one fell swoop. And oh my god, it makes me tear up every time I think about it. So, you know, it’s so amazing and you know, our industry has nothing to fear if you’re going to get as many talented females in as possible as the ones that I have seen. We are going to be in much stronger position in the future. So yeah.

     

    Cluny: Cam, I think that’s really funny. That story you just shared about all the responses you get. It was actually really interesting the other day and I received a day in, as you said, someone slid into our DMs on the alpha females and they just sent us a really lovely message just saying, you know, they stumbled across our podcast and they really love it. You know, they’ve just finished their degree and they’re not quite sure what they want to do next. And they love that. We’re sort of bringing this next layer of discussion. And I think, you know, and I had the same response. We both thought, Oh, wow, that’s, you know, that’s really amazing that we’re definitely reaching people. And, you know, I think we both got a bit excited about that, too. So, you know, I definitely think we’re all on the same page here. Last, but definitely not least question, and we always love to end our episodes with this. Clearly, you’ve had a extremely incredible career that I believe is still definitely going ahead, steaming ahead at a great pace. But if we stop and stand for a second, can you tell us what your top career tip?

     

    Camilla Love: I got so many, but I’ll limit them. Okay, because I could go on. This could be a whole podcast on this right? And that’s what I do with shares, not shoes, but I’ve got three. So if you give me let me waxed lyrical a little bit, the first one and the biggest one is choose your partner wisely. Right? And my view on that is if you want a long term, high profile career, you need someone that supports you and the household as a team member, not just as a significant other right. And it means 50 50 on everything, 50 50 on child rearing, 50 50 on folding, the washing and doing the shopping and of course, making financial decisions. If you don’t hit the ground rules early on that you will personally get a disappointing outcome of where you think you are. So really have those discussions early and choose your partner wisely, which is really deep, right? Really deep, particularly when you’re talking to people who are quite young and they’re like, Oh, my boyfriend does this and I, you know, I’ve been dating for this long. I’m like, Well, have those discussions. My second one is say yes to everything and then work it out later, right? So take every opportunity by the horns and totally run with it.

     

    Camilla Love: You can always say no at a later date, but if you say no before you can trying, that’s just plain dumb, right? You need to work that out. You need to go through those learning experiences and really seek out those opportunities. Say yes is my second one, and my third one is Network Network Network. It is totally critical. It’s who, you know, it’s not what you know. End of story. You know, for those people who really hate networking, find a way. Find a way, either partner with someone who can help you or network in somewhere that you feel comfortable in. But you’ve got to find a way. I’ve done a whole piece on my LinkedIn page. You can go and have a bit of a look see at that, you know, just starting with smile when your network is really important and it cuts through the pretentiousness of people and the difficulty that comes with networking. So they’re my top three could go on forever, but I’ll stop there.

     

    Emilie: I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with networking. I think we’re two professionals who love a network. My friends tease me hashtag networking, so I think that’s great.

     

    Camilla Love: Great advice. I’m the type of person who walks into a room and goes, Yes, I know nobody here. Let’s go. People think I’m absolutely crazy, but I love it. I love people’s stories. I love understanding that backgrounds. I love where you go into links with my interests and all that sort of stuff. I love that, right? I will be the person asking you one hundred and one question. And you do all the talking. I love it.

     

    Cluny: Love it, maybe, and once we’re out of lockdown, we need a not a virtual, but, you know, a real life event and we’ll invite Camilla and hopefully she knows no one and we can get everyone networking in the same room.

     

    Emilie: Clooney, I have to tell you that that’s very unlikely for Camilla.

     

    Camilla Love: That’s quite true. That’s quite true. It’s really weird. I went on a local lockdown walk the other day thinking, I’ll run into no one. I think I ran into eight people along the street in the middle of nowhere like it was. It was hilarious, like people from school through to people, you know, in the industry. It was, it was. It was hilarious. It was hilarious.

     

    Emilie: Thanks so much for coming on. We told you that it was an episode we’ve been looking forward to. We think your passion is so admiring and we love your enthusiasm, and we think that this will be an episode that will really resonate with our listeners. So thanks for coming on. It was great to have you let the race to half a billion begin

     

    Camilla Love: And leave and we’ll hold you to the champagne. So thanks again. I’m happy to lose that bet to you guys, right early to you guys.

     

    Cluny: Don’t worry, I took notes. Cam I’m all over it.

     

    Camilla Love: Okay, cool. Thanks for having me. It was so much fun. I hope you’ll have me again sometime once you run out of your, your people that you’re going to invite along.

     

    Emilie: Thanks, Cam. Thanks again. See you guys.